"At some point in our lifetime, gay marriage won't be an issue, and everyone who stood against this civil right will look as outdated as George Wallace standing on the school steps keeping James Hood from entering the University of Alabama because he was black."
--George Clooney
Within the last 50 years, my daughter would not have been allowed to marry any man but a black man here in the state where we live. Mexican and Asian citizens were faced with similar restrictions. Finally, Armenian people were not permitted to own homes in the "central valley" of the Los Angeles area. What the heck?!?!?! Historically, California has been a trendsetter in the lawmaking process. Would any of us stand for those same restrictions today? Of course not! They are hateful, divisive, discriminatory laws that don't have any place in our more modern, enlightened society. However, we have voted as a state to take away a fundamental civil right from thousands of the citizens in our state. I can't help but look back over the racist, hateful and discriminatory history of our state and nation, and hope that Mr. Clooney is correct; not to mention Mr. Olbermann.
17 comments:
thanks for the support. I have read your blog for some time. sorry it has taken so long to comment.
Cheryl
www.wemadeit.wordpress.com
I really don't see what the problem is. If people consider "marriage" a "Christian thing" then why are non-christians able to marry? People may not like inter-racial marriage (for example) but we would never consider making it illegal. How is homosexual marriage any different? There are some people that may not like it but who are they to try to stop it?
IMHO commitment is commitment and love is love and equal rights are equal rights. I know some folks that would rather the term "civil union" be used- but seriously- how is that any different than saying "you can get a drink but you have to use the drinking fountain for "colored" people".
Sorry, I'm probably just rambling and not making a lot of sense. But thank you for being willing to tackle such a controversial subject.
peace,
Emily
Keith Olberman is such a good, just man. We love his show. Thanks for posting this clip - we had missed that episode.
I was really disappointed in California, much as I was in my homestate of Colorado in 92(?). In this crazy, cruel world, why anyone would deny another of love and commitment is beyond me. As a happily married (to a man) woman, I can honestly say that nothing anyone else does in their bedroom affects the sanctity of my marriage in any way. Honestly, people who get worked up over this kinda creep me out!
We all should be free to love whomever we choose and to be loved by them, if they choose, in return. Obviously, you didn't alienate this reader; in fact, quite the opposite - I'm proud of your voice.
Wow, I can see from your blog you are not a Christian but beyond that ask yourself this...if people marrying the same sex is a civil right and shouldn't be taken away then shouldn't I be allowed to marry my dog or marry a 16 year old or marry my tomato plant outside...it's my civil right, isn't it? Where is the line drawn? You might say these things I mentioned above are ridiculous but you have no justification for that. You can't say I am off base because I want to marry my dog. That is my civil right, isn't it? You want to know where the line is drawn??? God draws that line and God says that homosexuality is wrong. Right and wrong are not defined by what the state votes upon...it is defined by God. Even if California was to vote no on prop 8, that would not change the fact that God still says it is wrong. It's sad to see that someone has fallen so far away from what scripture says. Hopefully you find your back some day.
Bob
First, thanks to all of you for your comments. How fun to find out I have some new readers. I was a little surprised considering my lack of writing consistency over the last few months.
To Bob...I find it a little sad that you want to put God, and my relationship with Him, in a box. That's OK though, because He and I are very clear where we stand together. In response to your opinion on Prop 8, since when are dogs and tomato plants in the same category as human beings. I believe God told Adam and Eve that they were to rule over His creation (plants and animals included), not marry it. It is your civil right to believe in God the way you wish. It is your civil right to marry the person of your choice. It is your civil right to follow the laws of the land, and vote on them when given the opportunity. Perhaps most important though, is the fact that your rights end when they impinge on the rights of another. I invite you to think on these things, and perhaps you will find yourself in a new place like I did. Good luck.
I'm no theologian, but I do seem to recall some rule that states to love your neighbor as yourself. I'm pretty sure that trumps a lot of other things.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
Will
Please keep in mind that I enjoy comments, and even a little friendly "back and forth". I do have a rule on my blog about Anonymous comments though. In case you missed it on the comment form, here it is. Thanks again.
"All comments are welcome, but if you choose to comment using the "anonymous" button, please be sure to include your name at the end. All TRULY anonymous comments will be deleted. Thanks for your understanding...Blaine (aka 5KidMom)"
Keith Olberman nailed it.
And I remember him when he was a shallow sports reporter in Chicago
Dad
I think it's interesting that you equate civil rights to the right to openly sin and marry a person of the same sex. This is nothing like the civil rights movement... when people of a different color couldn't even be in the same building as white people. Gay people have EXACTLY the same rights as the rest of us... they can marry whomever they want... as long as they are the opposite sex. That is what marriage IS (as God designed).
Whatever god you "stand together" with on this issue is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible clearly states what marriage is, and that is between a man and a women.
If you think that God is OK with marrying someone of the same sex (or any other sin), perhaps you should open your Bible and get to know Him a little better. God HATES sin, and that include homosexuality. That is not being hateful, it is not denying someone their civil rights, it is simply wrong according to God. Thankfully our God is also a forgiving God and just because one is gay, does not mean he or she needs to be a slave to that sin (just like any other sin).
Do not call me hateful because I oppose what God defines as sin. I love homosexuals and my heart breaks for them because I know that it is not an easy life. I have several friends and a family member who is a homosexual, and trust me, I have spoken to them many times.
I find it interesting that people have made proposition 8 into a "hate movement" as that has nothing to do with it. I love gay people just as much as any other person, and they have the same rights as I do.... I just refuse to make marriage anything other than what God designed it to be.
Ok, so I have to admit this is the first time I have checked out your blog. Kudos for your heart for children…having so many kids is no easy task, but a blessing from the Lord.
I respect your opinion on Prop 8, and because it has become a “civil rights” issue and a “religious” issue, people are missing the point. Step back from your emotion, take religion out of it, and take a good look at the matter at hand.
First off, the vote of the people is just that: the vote of the people. I highly doubt that all of the people that voted for Prop 8 are Christians (I don’t think that many Christians reside in California…and there are Christians who voted against Prop 8, such as you). There must be another reason that they voted the way they did. So what might that be? The argument for marriage to be defined as between a man and a woman is not so much a civil rights issue as it is a natural one. In cultures across the planet throughout time, marriage has been defined just this way. That includes cultures in which homosexuality is embraced and even encouraged. Anthropological evidence points to the fact that a union such as “marriage” is what is physically natural. Now this is not to say that gay people can’t have the same “rights” that married people do. We all know that in California homosexuals can have a state recognized civil union, may adopt children, and have death benefits….just like their straight counterparts. Yes, bigots come in all shapes and sizes, and there is discrimination still towards ethnic people, handicapped people and homosexual people. That isn’t right at all, but that is not what is happening with the Yes vote on Prop 8. The yes vote made clear that people want marriage to be defined in the physically natural way. (There also is a slippery slope argument in that if you make the term “marriage” subjective to the cultural definitions, one might decide that their right is to marry their own child, a goat, etc., which is where Bob was going in his argument, methinks.)
I love my homosexual friends and family members more than you will ever know. I know that God loves them too. However, if you keep church and state separate in this issue (as well as emotion and logic), you might see things slightly different. Just a thought.
-Jolene
Jess...Thanks for your comment. I really am OK with the fact that you and I, and plenty of other people, see this issue differently. I appreciate your point of view, but I do find it sad that you felt the need to question my personal faith and relationship with God. We've known each other a long time, and I am pretty sure you know that I am not standing with a God other than the one of the Bible. Perhaps there will come a day when you will find yourself in a 3rd world country. Perhaps you will see the sick and maimed lining the sidewalks, and experience the children putting their hands in your window every time your car stops, begging for pennies because they are so hungry and desperate. Suddenly, things like Prop 8 don't seem so important. Hopefully, all of us can find it in our hearts to love the unlovable, and reach out to all of our fellow human beings in love. I think that's what the God of the Bible would have us do.
Thanks Jolene. You make a very valid point. I do encourage you to do a little research on the domestic partnership and civil union laws though. There are differences from the rights afforded to married people, which is why LGBT people are fighting for the right to marry. I certainly have no argument with the fact that homosexual people cannot naturally reproduce, but many heterosexual couples cannot, or choose not to, as well. Does that mean that they should not be married? Just food for thought.
I have done extensive research as to the domestic partnership and civil union laws. After my research I have come to the conclusion that homosexuals who take part in a domestic partnership or civil union do in fact have the same rights as a heterosexual married couple. If you have differences in the rights, please do share...that is a good talking point in an of itself.
The argument you make in regards to reproduction has nothing to do with natural order, which was my argument. It is not an issue of reproduction, it is an issue of plumbing (if you catch my drift). Natural order.
ok, alot to digest but I think the last couple comments struck me the most. I agree with Jessica's comments and I also agree with Jolene & bob as well. (No big surprise I am sure) I have no desire to get in a "back & forth" with anyone cause it really accomplishes very little; although I don't think running off on the tangent of,"if you have ever been in a third world country." is really helpful either because I have been in countrys where people are sick and dying of horrible diseases. Where people are starving and not just starving for physical nourishment but spiritual as well and I still believe that the issue with prop 8 is important& worth fighting for if you are a believer of the fact that God made marriage for a man and a woman. I dont believe that its my place to sit around and judge your relationship with the Lord because you can be responsible all on your won for that. You know if you are baring fruit or not. I think its important that regardless of what the world says we stand on biblical principals. Never does it say in the word that as Christians it would be cushy, cozy but we are still suppossed to stand on truth and it makes me sad that so many Christians were so luke warm this election season. Bummer. Its bigger than prop 8 though and we all know that to be true. Its the condition of our hearts and where our values lay and how we treat each other. I will never walk on both sides of the fence on this issue. I love you whether you are gay or not but the word is the word and I stand on that foundation.
Thanks Christy. You're right that I am not surprised that you agreed with Jess and Jolene, but I appreciate your insight and thoughtful comment none the less. That's really all I meant by a little "back and forth". I hope all is well with you and yours'.
Love,
Blaine & Family
It is great to see that there are still some strong Christians out there. The God of the Bible does not change. His truths are the same and do not change even when the world around us does. God is black and white. It is very clear where God stands and you can not have it both ways. You can not be gay and a Christian. You can not believe, follow, and support unGodly things such as homosexuality and be a Christian. Your life should reflect the truths of the Bible. God calls us to judge everything and everyone according to scripture even when that is difficult and you may not be liked very much. This however does not mean that people who follow the Bible love people any less. In an above statement someone mentioned that loving your neighbor "trumps" a lot of things...loving your neighbor does not mean you can be okay with and condone sin. I do not hate gay people but yes they are in sin. I would not treat gay people differently than anybody else or haress them but if they ask if they are in sin or could be a Christian, I would for sure be honest. (and the answer would be yes you are in sin and no you would not be a Christian...in case someone was confused there). Being a Christian often times makes you very unpopular with the world. You say I "live in a box" when it comes to God...well if following what scripture says is living in a box then go ahead and say it. That does not offend me. I would rather be in a box following God then outside the box and going to Hell. God is not gray or wishy washy or "live outside of the box." We can not live our lives by the emotions we feel. Above you mentioned going to a third world country and seeing sick and dying people who have nothing, that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. What is relevant is God's truths and what He has to say. That is what Christians need to be following. Let's not let our emotions and feelings get in the way of what our purpose here on earth is and how we make up our minds about things. Our sole purpose for being created and being here on earth is to glorify God.
Bob
Thanks, Bob. With that, I officially declare this post closed. I think we will all be happier moving on. 8^)
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